If a 2nd edition of Yoon-Suin were to be released, what would you like added or changed?
If a 2nd edition of Yoon-Suin were to be released, what would you like added or changed? More art and better editing/layout go without saying.
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More info about Slug men. Their history and customs. Same with Crabmen. And lots of giant cockroaches.
ReplyDeleteA bit more on what PCs who grew up in Yoon Suin are like.
ReplyDeleteI would want the full LotFP treatment as far as quality goes. Format-wise, same thing--use the LotFP size or something similar--as it is the format is just kinda inconvenient.
ReplyDeleteArt wise--yeah, I love the art on the cover of Yoon-Suin--more of that inside would be cool, so I guess color is good.
-Expanded citizen/occupation tables (odd or easy-to-overlook-yet-essential jobs in the yellow city, polities, oligarchies, etc.)
ReplyDelete-Variant spell lists by region
-New spells to match setting values & interests
-examples of local magic items
-maybe tables for superstitions, unusual customs, punishments, what's the next local festival, & other similar cultural suggestion-bombs
-alternative, setting-appropriate xp suggestions you may have thought of and/or used in your home games
....and thanks for asking!
Maybe treasure tables in the book rather than needing to keep the Cyclopedia handy. You could then make the treasure a little more thematic. (not that it really needs it)
ReplyDeleteWilderness encounters and exploration stuff you can roll straight out of the book - where you encounter something, what it's doing, and general tips for how to run an encounter with some Preta or Tiger Beetle Men.
ReplyDeleteDungeon stuff - even just an unsorted list of concepts to get people's brains going. Ancient temples, stupas, cursed tombs, who might inhabit them etc.
If you had any, more monsters would always be fun.
Again, only if it's something that's easy for you to do rather than wracking your brain - unique Yoon-Suiny equipment or magic items.
"at least one picture of each monster" is an important art goal, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteName generators. For races, classes, locations, organizations, businesses, and geographical features. Switching to a secondary process on a web site to name all the stuff I generated was wearying. Lock the flavor in with names.
ReplyDeleteThe reproduction cycle of the crabmen
ReplyDeleteMaybe a per-region index/list of monsters, for those of us that don't always want to rely on random tables.
ReplyDeleteA5 sized hardback book
ReplyDeleteSo, in a similar way to Veins of the Earth and Stars Without Number, I really go in for books that don't load me up on lore, but rather let the setting and lore establish themselves via player interaction with the roll-tables, monsters, treasures, and side-show mechanical options. Yoon-Suin also does that... so... yeah, keep doing that. Just say no to paragraphs of lore.
ReplyDeletePlease keep costs down. Avoid color. Make it paperback.
ReplyDeleteOnly include things of great utility. If it's only a bit useful, chuck it and leave it to the GM.
Monster art is the only costly thing I'd value, but it is unnecessary.
I love the setting but it would have to contain a whole lot for me to buy it again. Maybe PDF option. But I bought it once. I hate buying things again just for additional content when I would rather just buy the additional content on its own.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Elias. A second edition would be really neat, but I probably wouldn't actually buy it unless I could buy a pdf and print it cheaply myself. I'd be more interested in buying an addendum, if that's possible. I'd buy that readily.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying I represent a multitude of customers, but personally I would buy it again in a heartbeat. I probably flick through my copy of Y-S at least once a day for the last few months running my campaign.
ReplyDeleteWere it in hardback form with at least some new art, I would buy it again in a heartbeat. I generally only buy physical copies of books if they are equal parts usable at the table (check) and if they're pretty (partial check). Have to disagree with Michael above on keeping costs down. If I want a cheap copy I can buy pdf and print myself. Physical should, whenever possible, be done at the highest caliber and be built to last (examples: Hot Springs Island, DCC Monster and Dungeon Alphabet, most LotFP books).
ReplyDeleteAlso, another vote for a more standard book size.
ReplyDeletePerhaps an update for monsters stats to ICRPG. The creator of the system also happens to be an artist. It is very rules light and it would be much easier to convert monsters than going to 5e.
ReplyDeleteEveryone wants art and color costs more, so maybe an e-mail to Hankerin could lead to some black and white art with ICRPG stats.
If you really want to go big with the project, maybe a 5e version as well.
There is a free quick start guide for ICRPG where you can see monsters are more about actions than a bunch of stats.
I know I ask a lot, but maybe a kid friendly version as well. Running games in a public setting I change some professions to massage therapists or yoga instructors to avoid some awkward game time.
Edit: on second thought a kid version would be hard because i have no issues with an opium den, but I could see others not wanting that in a family game.
Also I don't think the layout was really that bad in the original. It is written kinda by regions, but those are different starting options. There are a few words I had to look up while reading the setting, but they used correctly. Sorry for the rambling, I will definitely buy a second edition no matter what direction you go with it.
https://www.icrpg.com
https://www.icrpg.com
Feel free to describe slugs and crabs with tables rather than pages of lore
ReplyDeletePersonally I'd want a hardback sewn book. Maybe A5 landscape. I for one like the fact that the original sticks out on my shelf.
ReplyDeleteAs far as content goes, I'd like to see more tables, maybe 5e conversion notes. I think it is a good setting to introduce people to a DIY/OSR mentality.
Definitely more on slug-men and crab-men without going overboard with the lore as to keep 'making our own Yoon-Suin'. Even just one paragraph of their most basic cultural and physical traits and the 101 of the race beyond the info we already have would be nice. Maybe more implied setting fluff for these races with a couple big tables to generating NPC of these races.
ReplyDeleteMaybe one new area added to the map, either retconned in or simply adding it as a new area which has begun to interact more with the Yellow City. Alternatively, more tables and things to help jumpstart the imagination on the various hundred kingdoms and what they could be like, which is useful for players and GM.
More name tables, especially for more than just people but also places, gods and who knows what else.
>>B/X type reaction table for dealing with class differences
ReplyDelete>>Spell List for the Slugmen class
>>A table of 100 Yoon-Suin Treasure (maybe by region)
>>Dungeon Rooms/Features
>>Encounter tables for each of the regions
>>I like the list of common D&D monsters that might be in Yoon-Suin, but I would love for you to give them a Yellow City make-over. Like how the medusas of Yoon-Suin have centipedes instead of snakes and turn people into amber
I use these resources: blog.d4caltrops.com - Yoon-Suin Resources
As well as these weapons: http://lizardmandiaries.blogspot.com/2017/04/32-vaguely-eastern-guild-dog-weapon.html
Harback would be great. It would be so beautiful it would be an heirloom.
ReplyDeleteLet me preface my suggestions by saying Yoon-Suin is quite literally both my favorite and most-used (and useful) RPG book. You balanced flavor and usability perfectly, and there is more than enough content.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I'd like to see:
-Dungeons/lairs/Interior locations - both generators for various kinds (mines, temples, tombs etc.) and their contents as well as some maps. There are not a lot of Asian-themed maps out there.
-5E conversions for monsters. I prefer playing B/X but my group likes 5E. All you'd need to do to make it playable would be 5E conversions of the unique monsters. (Someone else suggested listing existing D&D monsters we might encounter in Yoon-Suin - I like that idea). It seems like it would be worth the extra effort and space to gain a foothold with a new and perhaps larger audience. (Crab Men and Slug men races for 5E would be great, but
-Others have mentioned it would be great to have the treasure table in the book rather than having to consult the Cyclopedia (it's available on DriveThru now but I had to get it off eBay when I first got Yoon-Suin). I think it would be better to have a completely unique treasure section.
-Expanded sections on The Mountains on the Moon (crystal dragons!) and Syr Darya (sp?). Those were the few points where I felt I could have used a little more help from the book in fleshing out.
-Expand on The Four Mysteries. This may go against he spirit of the book, which seems to me to say "create your own version of Yoon-Suin", but I feel there might be a way to elaborate on these things and still keep elements of randomness and mystery.
-Size. At the very least a vertical rather than horizontal book. Personally I'd like something that's closer to the size of 5E hardcovers than LotFP books, and I think that would allow the book to be thinner.
-If the PDF isn't hyperlinked/bookmarked, I'd recommend that as well.
All this is me being greedy really. Other than the 5E stuff (again because of what the group I DM for wants), I've never felt the book was lacking. Giving us even a fraction more would make me buy a 2nd edition. And I'd love to see this get more recognition/be played by more people.
The main problem is Yoon-Suin is very light on art. So my suggestion would be to invest in paying artists well and getting some larger scale images in there.
ReplyDeleteAnd moving on from the horizontal format.
Cartography is in need of improvement. The wilderness hex maps are hard to read, things just blend together.
ReplyDeleteGenerally, stronger wilderness adventure support is what the setting would benefit from.
I am one of the people who has been happy with the format. More art by the same artist, sure. A hardback is unnecessary as long as the book is suited for table use - it can lay down flat, and it isn't too heavy to carry around or unpleasant to handle (a common problem of mega-hardbacks).
Thanks, all. Keep them coming. I want to stress that this a) might never happen; and b) even if it does, I would only do it along with proper new content like a big Yoon-Suin based megadungeon or something.
ReplyDeleteYes, a bit more info on what the countryside looks like. Forests, plants, animals.
ReplyDeleteAlso c) the horizontal format will not change. Sorry. I like it.
ReplyDeleteHorizontal hardback could still work.
ReplyDeleteHelp us create lore. Legends, lost tribes, strange relics.
ReplyDeleteHorizontal hardback would be fantastic.
ReplyDeleteOn p121 an encounter table asks you to roll d10+d20 and as a result there is an empty box for 1. Then a couple of pages later on p125 the Special Sites table asks you to roll d30. I'd suggest making them both d30. Possibly with a note in the foreword on how to generate a d30 result without having one (d6 + d10 where the d6 results are the tens ie 1-2= 0, 3-4 = 1 and 5-6 = 2).
ReplyDeleteI'd also put the page numbers for the left hand pages on the left hand side rather than in the gutter where they are hard to reference.
ReplyDeletedonjondo There is a reason for that - the probability distributions are different. d10+d20 for an encounter table lets you create results that are more common or rarer.
ReplyDeleteDavid McGrogan ah ok fair enough!
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, when I run Yoon Suin I use the magic system from Maze Rats for Chaos Monks (and everyone plays a Chaos Monk.) For my own table, I plan to make an adapted more stable version with different words for sluggish magic.
ReplyDeleteI call the slug men sluggish, and also have yakkish and crabbish.
I use the monster manual and awesome magic item charms from the Mad Monks of Kwantoom, and the pagoda generator is all the mega-dungeon I'll ever need for Yoon Suin. I made the city in that book, the City of Innocent Deaths, a walled city-within-a-city on a delta island of the Yellow City.
I also riffed off the sluggish to make the snailish, who are looked down upon in society, and skinny, with just one eyestalk, but they can glue themselves together to make a family foot to move a cart-sized shell with their valuables stored in it.
Anyway, those were the pieces that I used to help round out my experience with the game. There's no advice in there for what you need to do, because that seamless fit prevented a need to reinvent the wheel, but having a procedural city activity generator built in as well as being able to use a whole bestiary of Eastern monsters and the wonderful magic charms, as well as the advantages of the Maze Rats system, really gave me good tools to round out using Yoon Suin.
I'd love to see a companion piece to Yoon Suin, something in the same style but dealing with a different region, possibly neighbouring or possibly not, more like across the sea and vaguely known about in Yoon Suin.
ReplyDeleteI don’t mind the horizontal format but I realized lately that I like the layout to be a little denser than it usually is esp. in the indie scene, so that I don’t have to flip through the pages a lot to view information.
ReplyDeleteHardback professionally printed deluxe book with more art and tables. Maybe Lore but I find flavour/style better and more useable in my homebrew remix. LotFP always do nice books and sell lots in the same market.
ReplyDeleteThings I’d recommend
ReplyDeleteBetter formatted tables for ease of reference
Creature index for better reference
Creature art obvsly
Weapon index for types of weapons with their OSR analogs
Specific page art for each section - like the different chapters would be recognizable based on colour, graphic, and page number - for ease of navigation.
I remember seeing some gaps
ReplyDeleteTowards the bottom of p. 296, you probably meant consonant-vowel-consonant-vowel pattern", not "consonant-verb-consonant-verb pattern". (Also, length-based vowel harmony seems pretty nonsensical, but that perhaps only makes it cooler).
ReplyDeleteI would love to grab an odd-sized fancy edition, even if the price stings, but accompanying it with a printer-firendly b&w pdf would be much appreciated.
ReplyDeleteAnd I second Gabor Lux here: hardback, definitely, and shinier and more detailed hex maps, please, please, please.
ReplyDeleteYoon-Suin is by far my favorite setting oriented book ever. I love it so much that I almost hate it for not being my ideas. So more more more is a sell for me. Hardcover. I second those that mention wilderness adventuring. Spells. More details (well, tables) into the non-Yellow City regions. Show me what else is different.
ReplyDeleteAdd the bonus dungeon you send out as a PDF. That's a good primer on what a Yoon-Suin dungeon looks like.
ReplyDeleteAndrew Wright There was/is a bonus dungeon?
ReplyDeleteHow does one see that thing?
ReplyDeleteYes, it's called: The Halls of the Shimmering Stars in the Deep Blue Firmament
ReplyDeleteAndrew Wright I promised the bonus dungeon will never be made available for purchase. But definitely if I did a 2nd edition there would be a dungeon with it.
ReplyDeleteDavid McGrogan So I have both the pdf and the book. I can find my order number for lulu but where do i look at on drivethru to find the info you need. (found it) And where do i send that info?
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see a more expansive version of the city neighborhoods tables and things like that
ReplyDeleteElias Stretch Just email me!
ReplyDeleteTito B.A. I have pretty involved notes on slugmen reproduction... but very little on crabmen
ReplyDeletePierre Therriault Share what you have
ReplyDeleteyes, please
ReplyDeleteI have a lot of stuff - I don't want to flood the group
ReplyDeletePut it all in a pdf?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think the group would be glad for the flood.